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CNBC News Transcripts
July 14, 1997, Monday 10:43 AM

SHOW: RIVERA LIVE (9:00 PM ET)

O.J. Simpson’s Brentwood Estate Goes On The Auction Block; O.J. Gives Interview To CNN, Complaining About Financial Worries

ANCHORS: JOHN GIBSON
BYLINE: GEORGE LEWIS
LENGTH: 2351 words

JOHN GIBSON, Host:

Now it has five bedrooms, six bathrooms, a tennis court, waterfalls, a pool, a spacious guest house–a famous, spacious guest house. It was O.J. Simpson’s pride and joy for two decades. But today, his Rockingham estate went the way of his Heisman Trophy, his favorite golf clubs and his previous way of life. The Tudor-style mansion and surrounding grounds were auctioned off for $ 2.6 million and bought by the bank that foreclosed on the dream house. NBC’s George Lewis has the details.

GEORGE LEWIS Reporting:

The company that handled today’s foreclosure auction has run plenty of these proceedings, but never one quite like this.

Mr. PATRICK DOBIESZ (Foreclosure Agent): Well, most of the famous properties have not gathered this type of media attention. They go very quietly.

LEWIS: But in this case, the prize was the O.J. Simpson home, one of the most famous pieces of real estate ever.

This game was for serious bidders only. To get into the auction you had to have a cashier’s check in your pocket for $ 2,531,259.

It only took about three minutes to sell off the estate, the bidding starting at $ 1,875,000 and rapidly going past the $ 2 1/2 million mark.

Unidentified Auctioneer: Two million six hundred thirty-one thousand two hundred fifty-nine dollars–third call. Any further bids? Sold, $ 2,631,259.

LEWIS: The bank that foreclosed on Simpson’s mortgage was the winning bidder, paying about $ 100,000 more than Simpson owes.

Real estate experts say the bank can probably turn around and sell the house for $ 1/2 million to $ 1 million profit.

Tourists and news people outside the house today caught brief glimpses of Simpson as he departed to play golf. He had no comment. But over the weekend, at a 50th birthday party for Simpson, he talked to a local television station about leaving the place he’s called home for 20 years.

Mr. O.J. SIMPSON: I’ve had a lot of good times here. I’ve enjoyed them all. And, you know, I mean–looking forward to having good times wherever else I go.

LEWIS: The families of the murder victims in the Simpson case won’t get any money from today’s sale. One of Fred Goldman’s lawyers observed the auction, noting that other creditors are in line ahead of Goldman.

Mr. PETER GELBLUM (Fred Goldman’s Lawyer): This sale wipes off everybody’s liens, including Fred’s.

LEWIS: Simpson plans to leave the house by the end of summer, looking to rent in the same area. His neighbors, tired of all the attention, hope it’s not too close. George Lewis, NBC News, Los Angeles.

GIBSON: And it’s been a big media day for Simpson. Aside from the hoopla over the house, the acquitted killer gave an extended interview to CNN’s Greta Van Susteren. In the conversation, Simpson again said that the Bruno Magli shoes he’s seen wearing in many photographs were not his shoes. He denied that his ex-wife Nicole had ever kept a diary. He mentioned that people were making contributions to a fund for his mother, Eunice. And he asserted twice, in fact, that he loves his life. He also said, Hey, reopen this case.’

We’re going to get into the Simpson quotes with our guests right after this break. You’re watching RIVERA LIVE on CNBC.

(Announcements)

Mr. SIMPSON: I’m going to try to stay on this side of town. The problem is I have my kids going to school here, and they like their schools and then we have a terrific support group of neighbors and friends and–on the West Side. And as much as I can, I want to keep my kids in that, at least until my appeal is done. Unfortunately, at this point, the two places that I’ve looked at that I like and I think is suitable that has the protection and the rooms that I need aren’t on the West Side, but I’m hoping something shows up.

GIBSON: O.J. Simpson speaking out over the last few days said today on the diary, Nicole’s diary, Nicole never kept a diary.’ He also was asked–and there is the diary in the handwriting of one Nicole Brown Simpson: O.J. came to pick up the kids at 8:30. They wanted to stay home,’ etc., etc., etc. He was also asked about those Bruno Magli shoes and the photos of him wearing them. I didn’t expect to overcome it because they weren’t my shoes.’ There they are. I don’t suppose the issue was whether or not they were his shoes; the issue is whether they were on his feet, and they appear, in the photo, to be on his feet, in fact.

Bob Dunn. Last one. This is–wait a second here. This new subject: My biggest concern financially is that I don’t feel that the second trial was fair. My biggest financial problem at this point is trying to fund my appeal.’ And there are some more, but let’s go over those things right now.

Bob Dunn, Bruno Magli shoes, They weren’t my shoes.’

Mr. ROBERT DUNN (Criminal Defense Attorney): Well, I mean I–I think…

Mr. JAMES CURTIS (Deputy District Attorney, Riverside County, California): Go, Robert. Come on.

GIBSON: G–I got the laughing choir up there. We’ll get to you guys in a second, hang on.

Mr. DUNN: I think the picture speaks for itself, you know.

GIBSON: But it may be true they weren’t his shoes.

Mr. DUNN: Well, hey you’re right. The point of the matter is whether or not he ever wore Bruno Magli shoes. I just feel that that was like a real mistake on the part of O.J.’s defense team. Rather than getting into whether or not he ever wore Bruno Magli shoes, I think it would have been a better issue as to whether the prints were, indeed, Bruno Magli shoes.

GIBSON: Victoria Toensing, Nicole never kept a diary.’ Flat statement, not contradicted, not followed up on, just Nicole never kept a diary.’

Ms. VICTORIA TOENSING (Criminal Defense Attorney): Why shouldn’t he say things like that? He’s been saying lies for at least the last two or three years that we’ve been seeing him perform and nobody ever really calls him on it…

Mr. ALVIN MICHAELSON (Criminal Defense Attorney): That’s true.

Ms. TOENSING: …until he went to the civil trial. Huh, you know, he’s writing his own fiction right now. He–you say an ugly eye–al–an ugly lie enough and they–it sounds like the–sounds like the truth to some people.

GIBSON: Let’s go to the LA guys.

Mr. MICHAELSON: I agree with Victoria, and I must say that I haven’t agreed with her that often, but I do agree with you, Victoria.

Ms. TOENSING: Oh, it’s a special day, Alvin.

GIBSON: Well…

Mr. MICHAELSON: And I agree that he’s been–he was probably, as we can see lying all along and he even testified I don’t think I’d blame it on his defense team he was the one who said he never struck her. He was the one who said various things, not his defense team.

Mr. DUNN: No, I just meant–I just meant that issue.

GIBSON: I think I think before Bob Dunn interrupts, I should remind every-body that the person speaking to us about O.J.’s lies is Bob Kardashian’s lawyer, who, of course, sat in the courtroom for all that time, and Alvin Michael-son does, in fact–next to O.J.

Mr. MICHAELSON: Well, I didn’t sit there; Bob did.

GIBSON: Bob did; Alvin didn’t.

Mr. MICHAELSON: Right, yeah, right.

GIBSON: Alvin sat next to Bob Kardashian. What about this–as long as we’re on that subject, Alvin…
Mr. MICHAELSON: Yes.

GIBSON: My biggest concern financially is that I don’t feel the second trial was fair. My biggest financial problem at this point is trying to fund my appeal.’ Should he waste any money at all on his appeal?

Mr. MICHAELSON: I don’t think he should. By the time he gets done with that appeal, anyway, he’ll be alive–he’ll only have his unfortunate $ 25,000 a month left.

GIBSON: The IRS is taking $ 9,000, let’s be honest about this. He’s living on $ 16,000 a month.

Mr. MICHAELSON: All right. Now–now I think he can live on $ 16,000 a month. There are a lot of people in this country that can do it, and I don’t think he’s going to be living in a hovel, either.

GIBSON: So, James…

Ms. TOENSING: There’s a lot of people that live on that amount of money a year, for goodness sake. You know, where’s the och…

GIBSON: Victoria, since you spoke up, let me ask you: Is he being–is he doing the best he can or is he being a deadbeat? Should he be out there working for Fred Goldman or just enjoying life on the 16 grand a month and playing golf?

Ms. TOENSING: Oh, well, y–y–oh, let me–let me bat that softball. Let me bat that one out…

GIBSON: Well, do it quickly. I got more quotes for you to examine.

Mr. CURTIS: Stand back and enjoy life.

Ms. TOENSING: You know, I–my heart cries for him. Where is that show, “Queen for a Day” when we need it, to take care of O.J.?

GIBSON: Yeah, Jack–Jack Bailey.

Ms. TOENSING: Jack Bailey.

GIBSON: Jack Bailey.

Mr. CURTIS: He has no incentive to work, though. I mean, that’s the bottom line.

GIBSON: Well, right.

Mr. MICHAELSON: He’s the perennial victim.

Mr. CURTIS: I mean, I–well–well, it’s not even so much that, but, I mean, the purpose of this judgment was to make sure that he was penniless, that he would have no money, that he would not profit again. And whether he works and gives all that money away to Fred Goldman and the other plaintiffs, or whether he doesn’t work and doesn’t earn any money, it’s the same effect, so it doesn’t make any difference.

GIBSON: Well, I ha–you know, we’re calling this segment, Hey, Reopen This Case,’ and that–that quote doesn’t just come out of the blue; let’s put that up on the screen now. Simpson talking about what many people joke about, his continuing investigation to find the real killers. And he says–Bill Pavelic and Pat McKenna, these are two names that come at us, a blast from the past–They’re detectives that I hired I can’t afford to pay now. But from time to time when they have free time, they look into things from letters that we’ve gotten and information that we’ve gotten. And hopefully, one day I’ll be able to go to the DA’s office, put this on the desk, and say, “Hey, reopen this case.”‘

Mr. CURTIS: I think that’s exactly what should happen, under the sole condition that Mr. Simpson waive his rights regarding–not invoke his double jeopardy rights, allow himself to be a suspect again, and we’ll just start all over from square one.

GIBSON: Can you do that?

Mr. MICHAELSON: With different prosecutors.

Mr. CURTIS: Sure, you can waive any rights.

Mr. MICHAELSON: With different prosecutors.

GIBSON: Alvin, can you waive your double jeopardy rights?

Mr. DUNN: I don’t think you can. I don’t know anyone that’s tried it.

GIBSON: Has anybody ever done that before, James?

Mr. DUNN: I don’t think you can.

Mr. CURTIS: Sure, you can.

Mr. MICHAELSON: I don’t think–any right–any right can be waived if you don’t make a motion to dismiss the case based on double jeopardy grounds. I guess you can do that.

Mr. DUNN: A court can move sua sponte for the integrity of the court. No one would…

GIBSON: On its own? Is that what sua sponte means?

Mr. DUNN: Yeah, that’s what it means: on its own. No one would do that in the case of O.J. Simpson because of the thirst for–of O.J. Simpson’s blood.

Mr. MICHAELSON: Especially if he asked–especially if he asked for it.

Mr. DUNN: But beyond that, in any other context, I think the court would ad-here to the rule that it would be double jeopardy and it–and–on its own motion would not allow it to go forward.

GIBSON: Well, Alvin, as involved as you are in this…

Mr. MICHAELSON: Yes.

GIBSON: …can you testify to any accuracy–is O.J. having Bill Pavelic and Pat McKenna look into things from time to time? Is there a file building on his desk that he’ll be able to go down and give Gil Garcetti and say, Hey, reopen this case’?

Mr. MICHAELSON: Why are you asking me? I have no…

GIBSON: You’re the lawyer for his friend, Bob Kardashian.

Mr. MICHAELSON: But his friend, Bob Kardashian, if you’ve read some of the books…

GIBSON: I have read them, but you explain it.

Mr. MICHAELSON: And, you know, I mean, after all, they’re not like–I don’t think they’re that close anymore, and I haven’t seen Bob Kardashian in a very long period of time. So I don’t know if they’re compiling this dossier. But it’s a little late for them to be compiling. They could have compiled it for the civil lawsuit, I imagine. They could have been working on it all along.

GIBSON: Bob Dunn.

Mr. DUNN: Yeah, what’s really fascinating to me is I was watching “Cross-fire,” you know, before coming here. And whenever they have any program…

GIBSON: Never heard of it.

Mr. DUNN: …that deals with O.J. Simpson, it’s not crossfire. There’s not two opposing points of view that are going–you know, it’s just in the fire, you know what I’m saying, it’s just O.J. Simpson.

Mr. MICHAELSON: Should call it Crosshairs.’

Mr. DUNN: And have you ever heard of an auction being televised live? I mean, we’re not talking about that it’s newsworthy enough to say, Well, this is what happened with regard to the auction.’ They televised it live. What is this fascination with O.J. Simpson?

Ms. TOENSING: Does this mean that Kato is really homeless? Is Kato really homeless now?

GIBSON: Well, he’s lost his final resting place, unless he wants to go to the Hawthorne savings and loan and try to bail it out. Hey, Reopen This Case.’ More after this break. This is RIVERA LIVE on CNBC.

(Announcements)

GIBSON: Hawthorne savings and loan bought O.J. Simpson’s house today for $ 2.6 million. On the phone with us now is Elaine Young, the real estate agent who some time ago sold the house to O.J. Simpson.

Elaine, did Hawthorne savings and loan get a good deal?

Ms. ELAINE YOUNG (Simpson’s Former Realtor): They stole it. It’s probably the–I’ve been in real estate 40 years; it’s the best deal I’ve ever seen.

GIBSON: Well, what’s it going to retail for?

Ms. YOUNG: Well, I think because it’s O.J.’s house, it’s going to go in the high $ 3 million to $ 4 million, I really do.
Mr. DUNN: Why wasn’t anyone buying it, Elaine? Why wasn’t anyone there to buy it?

Mr. CURTIS: Yeah, how can you steal something at an open auction? I’m not clear on that concept.

Ms. YOUNG: No, no, no. I think the way it was handled, that a lot of people just wouldn’t show up, where it was and open and press, and I just don’t think people want to be exposed like that.

Mr. DUNN: Well, it’s where you…

GIBSON: Well, those who are willing to pay $ 3 million, it will be listed soon. Go buy it. Let’s switch subjects.
Ms. YOUNG: Oh, yeah, it’s going to be listed with somebody.

GIBSON: Thanks a lot, Elaine.

LOAD-DATE: July 16, 1997

LANGUAGE: English

TYPE: Analysis